How Not to Make Me Ex-Gay
Jason Kuznicki on Jul 20th 2005 06:08 pm |
Several times a year I receive a letter a lot like the following, which is a composite of several that I’ve gotten.
Dear Jason,
I recently found your website, http://www.positiveliberty.com. You seem to be a very good writer as well as very intelligent. I was therefore surprised to read your essay on homosexuality.
I am writing to let you know that you are making a terrible mistake. You may think that being gay is who you actually are, but it’s not. Homosexuality is only something that you choose to do–and you can choose to stop it if you want. A person like you, with all of your talents and abilities, should not waste his life on a destructive, unfulfilling lifestyle.
[Jason and Scott at the Painted Desert National Monument, Arizona, 1999.]Fortunately, I can help you. I managed to escape being a homosexual, and now you can too.
I know what you’ve been through: the one-night stands, the insincere, unfaithful partners, the men you don’t really like but sleep with anyway, and all that desperate searching for your next sexual fix. You’ve got to end it, for your own good and for the good of those around you.
You need to realize that the men you are having sex with don’t really love you. In fact, they hate you. They only use you for their lustful purposes, not for any higher form of love.
Unlike homosexuals, heterosexuals sacrifice themselves and their personal desires for the sake of their partners. They commit to each other and care for each other even when times are difficult. Being “gay” is only about sex, and that’s no way to have a life. Real love is nurturing and fulfilling. It’s something that two men just can’t have for each other. You might tell yourself you have a real love, but real love is heterosexual according to God’s plan.
You are more than just sex, Jason, and I know that you are smart enough to realize this. Deep inside, you know that it’s true. One day you will look back at the homosexual time in your life and be ashamed of it. Have you ever considered what you will do when you get older, and when you aren’t sexually attractive anymore?
Now, you might get angry with me–no, you probably will get angry with me. But this is not hate mail. I am here to tell you the truth, and in your desperate state, the truth is going to hurt a little. You are living irresponsibly, and someone needs to make this clear to you.
And if you do find yourself getting angry, consider this: The real reason for your anger is that you are only mad at yourself for having made a lot of unfortunate decisions. Try to understand that I love you. I love you much more than the men with whom you only have lustful relations. They don’t care about you at all–but I do. And if you only let me, I can help you to leave a very sad and confused time in your life.
Sincerely,
[Often the writers of these letters don't even bother leaving their real names.]
Note: Minor edit to clarify the origin of the text, July 22.
Filed in Uncategorized
Debbie –
I did not claim to speak for all homosexuals here, and I am sure that some have had experiences like the ones you describe.
Also, I did not attack anyone. Nor did I even attack anyone’s beliefs. I simply showed pictures of my life, in between a bunch of things that people tell me all the time. I posted this not because I’m angry at the people who say these things, but because I’m puzzled. My experiences just don’t line up with their assertions. And I’m afraid my experiences don’t line up with your claims, either.
It will be ten years this October since I came out. And also this October, Scott and I will celebrate our eighth anniversary as a couple. As I understand it, we will have lasted longer than the average heterosexual marriage by a year. It’s not like I have to prove anything to you — in this life, we are all individuals, and we are all responsible to ourselves and our loved ones alone — but there you have it. Maybe other gay couples don’t work, but we do.
I could tell Scott anything, literally anything, that was on my mind or in my heart. I’ve stayed with him through good times and bad. We’ve both been sick and healthy, successful and frustrated, happy and sad. When we were flat broke, we shared our ramen noodles. We recently bought our second and much nicer house, and we are preparing to adopt children.
Do I still find him sexually attractive? Yes, I admit that I do. I find it curious that you would use this against me. I would think, you know, that if your husband found you sexually attractive, you would be happy about it, rather than considering it a strike against his fidelity.
But at the same time, if all I wanted was an attractive guy to sleep with, I could probably do better than Scott. After all this time, though, and after all we have had in common, and all our past experiences, and all our plans for the future, I simply don’t want to go out looking for something like that. Other guys are nice to look at, but I’m not dumb enough to throw away my life for them. Maybe some other gays are, but that’s them, not me.
As to being frustrated with women: No. I never had any interest at all in women. Not a bit. Again, I’m sorry to disappoint you.
I am not disappointed, I have watched over and over and over a different reality. I find it strange that you would think I am disappointed. My only objective is to raise an awarness of another way of being. And to state that the homosexual community is guilty of just as much discrimation to hetero-phophia as some straight persons are to homo-phophia.
That is is possible that someone may be in a gay relationship, yet not be born specificly attracted to men and visa versa..and THUS being gay and “return” to a straight life. Does that mean they were converted? No, it means they discovered who they really were after exploration…but the gay community at large will not accept this.
You may be one of the few that are born with your status. That is ok and I am happy for you. However, from my point of view, you discounted the orginal writers opinion that can and may apply to others – and it appeared you fell into the catagory of one size fits all. I am glad you said you did not speak for the gay community, that is fair of you. One can only speak for themselves.
I too only speak for myselfs and my experiences. I am really sick and tired of the discrimiation that I have seen in the gay community. I am sick of the negative relationships, where one party of a partnership, feels sex has nothing to do with the relationship..they go out on their partner and do not see what the big deal is. I watch the pain of my friends.
Then there are those who I KNOW are bisexual or who choose to be gay for emotional safety. Men that may be in a gay partnership…yet staring down a women’s naked body or breasts..only to be followed with “I am gay gay gay”..ya right. They can not be true to themselves BECAUSE of the predjuice. If they were truely 100% homsexual they would be like you and simply not interested …. but they are. Yet to admit this interest to others, especially other gay men is extremely dangerous terriorty. I have watched the other gay man slam and I do mean slam the poor guy emotionally. Telling him to pick sides. If you are born a certain way..you can’t. Yet they think by verbal abuse they can force someone to change their nature..which sounds awfully familar coming from the other direction.
Discrimiation is huge and it is not just a heterosexual problem..
Just as I am straight and have to put into check those people who discrimate aganist same sex relationships, I feel it is your job to perform the same duty from the other side. Put homsexual individuals in check for their prejudice.
I appericate you willingness to discuss, yet I also felt the need for balance and to open the minds of people to alternatives that no one seems willing to admit.
“Men that may be in a gay partnership…yet staring down a women’s naked body or breasts..only to be followed with “I am gay gay gay”..ya right. They can not be true to themselves BECAUSE of the predjuice. If they were truely 100% homsexual they would be like you and simply not interested …. but they are.”
Just b/c a gay man has *some* degree of attraction to women doesn’t mean he is fully attracted to them and could therefore “choose” to flourish heterosexually. You err, like many others, when you assume there are only 3 boxes — gay straight and bi — and by implication, a bisexual is fully attracted to both genders and therefore has a “choice.” Sexuality actually falls along a continuum (Kinsey rated the scale from 0-6, with 0 purely hetero, and 6 purely homo). Someone who is a Kinsey 5 is fully attracted to the same sex, but only incidentally attracted to the opposite. Such a person may be able to perform in the short run, heterosexually, but in the long run can only flourish homosexually.
And there are a lot more Kinsey 1s (people who are by in large hetero, incidentally homo) than Kinsey 5s. I believe there are more Kinsey 1s and 2s than self identified gays or bis, that they likely comprise double digits of any given world population, they define and understand themselves to be “hetero” or “normal” (not part of the “gay or bi” community) and simply blend in to the normal straight population. Likewise, though they may be able to experiment with and enjoy homosexual behavior, they would not be able to “choose” to be gay, because they wouldn’t be able to flourish in the long run with exclusive or even predominant homosexuality. Some recent historical figures who might fall in this box include Mick Jagger, David Bowie, Pete Townsend, Marlon Brando, James Dean, Cary Grant, Madonna, and many others. I don’t know why I’m listing so many men as the phenom is more clearly identifiable in women.
Debbie –
One of the problems we’re having in this discussion, I think, is that you and I can offer many anecdotes without ever conclusively proving anything about gays in general.
For example, I can name several same-sex couples — both male and female — in my circle of friends who have been together longer than I’ve been alive. But if I’m being perfectly fair, I can also name several people who might have to agree with a lot of what you’ve said about impermanent gay relationships. I’m not sure that our anecdotes will do much toward answering the real question, which is, as I see it: Given the reality of same-sex sexual attraction, and the reality of same-sex long-term love, what moral status do we ascribe to these relationships?
I’m not quite as convinced as you are that the gay community is heterophobic or that it is unwilling to let “its” people slide back toward heterosexuality. I think for the most part that this is a stereotype, and that most gay people today recognize that there is room for people attracted to both genders at different times in their lives. (Yes, with a stereotype there’s a grain of truth, and sometimes gay people are intolerant in this way. But, frankly, the younger generation of gays have put up with enough labels and stereotyping and “you have to do X and Y and Z.” We’re fed up with this stuff, too, wherever it comes from.)
So yes, we are skeptical of the ex-gay movement, but we are skeptical mainly because of the extravagant promises that ex-gays make, and because of the often patronizing tone that they assume toward us — a tone I hoped to capture in this post. We aren’t all hurting, and abused, and desperate. Some of us are actually happy.
Meanwhile, I do think you are right that it’s often easier to say you are “just” straight or you are “just” gay, rather than saying that you are bisexual or that you are somewhere in between. I think it’s sad that the world is like this, and I think that people who experience attraction to both genders, in whatever degree, ought to be able to examine their own feelings here and not feel pressured by others to conform in either direction.
To give an example from my own life — I hesitate a bit to share this, but I think it’s probably for the best — my own partner, whom you see in the pictures, is not exclusively gay. He’s about a 5 on the Kinsey scale. Every so often, he finds a woman attractive. I can’t empathize with it, but I accept that it’s a part of who he is, and I accept that it’s a legitimate feeling, and it would be wrong of me to tell him to “stop” feeling this way. And yet we do know, both of us, that these are just temporary attractions, as passing as the attractions I sometimes feel for other men. What we’ve built together remains far more important.
Now, when someone isn’t a perfect 0 (heterosexual) or 6 (like me) on the Kinsey scale, what do we do with that person? What does he do with himself? These are questions that require much sensitivity and discretion. The gay community hasn’t always done well by them. But if a good friend of mine who called himself gay suddenly found himself attracted to a woman and wanted to start a relationship with her, I would not say no. I would say something like this: “I hope the two of you can be happy together. I admit I’m surprised — I mean, I did think you were gay and all — but if you really are happy, then you have my blessing. I hope that you two will make it work, whatever you call yourselves. Whatever it is, be sure about it, be true, and I think you’ll do right. It’s not easy, being happy in this world, and if you’ve got it, then great.”
That’s what I’d say. Does it sound good to you?
That sound respectable me and I appericate the forthrighness of what you say about your partner. That takes guts to admit and explains why you may understand the situtation of many individuals who do not fit into the mold of the traditional. Only a person, gay or straight, who totally accept themselves and others can make these kind of statments. My hats off to you.
It is also true that our experiences are not necessarily scientific in nature. Honestly I know of one couple who seem to have settled into a happy long term relationship, but not without some bumps and wanderings of one party. The same can be said for many of my straight friends, however if I dare to note a common different between my own control set, is that the male gay couples tend to not communicate emotional feelings and needs nearly as much as the straight couples. They claim that such express is unimportant where as I believe that communication on a emotional level is essential to the success of a long term life of a relationship.
Be as that may, it hard for me to watch friends go through unnecessary stress due to the their same sex gay friends punish them for out of the box thinking.
I agree that the mear mention of the subject must be meet with discretion and care. I also note there will always be individuals of any lifestyle, who are insecure enough with themselves and must attempt to force others in order to justify themselves. Does not matter if it is lifestyle or religion, people want others to be part of their club.
My only additional food for thought, is that I do not believe in the “ex-gay” concept. Rather, I do believe people can select to be in a gay relationshp, without necessarily being naturally gay. Thus the return to a hetero relationship is not ex-gay. Women who have had lesbian experiences and partners do this all the time and yet are not assigned the gay catagory when they return to a hetero relationship, that seems to be a male only label and I have to wonder why. Why does it have to be “ex” anything?
I hesitate to use the scientific Kinsey scale as a generalized use of a individuals desires in that the name has it’s own overtones and labels. Why can not an individual be in a gay relationship or a straight relationship, without past baggage? They are what they are right now and nothing more. Although I will respect the research and effort put into the study and it does work as a guide line of explaination.
As a final comment, we are in complete agreement with respect to a friend and whoever they want to be with. I just want individuals to be happy and content with their life, whoever that may be with. Like you I am open to the options and happiness of people I know.
We have come full circle.
Jonthan -
I want to quickly comment on your note. With respect to a man who is in a gay relationship and still being attracted to women, I find your reaction typical. It is not a sterotypical theory, it is a living experience with some gay men friends of mine and what they have expressed to me.
Why do you need to so badly demand that once in a gay relationship…is forever a gay person? Why not accept the individual as is?
Survivial in a gay relationship does not assume that you are particpating in a gay community. You may desire to be with an individual because of who they are and have absolutely no desire to associate with the external lifestyle. I have a friend who is presently in a gay relationship for over 8 years..and is not happy.
Like I said in a previous note, I have issues with definieing people based on a cold scientific scale. Why can not an individual be in a gay relationship or a straight relationship, without past baggage or assigning of a priority and labels? They are what they are right now and nothing more. The past mearly made them what they are today.
Women who have experienced lesbian relationships do this ALL THE TIME, with no forward binding of sexual prefence label. I am not sure why the men feel so threatend with the same concept. If a man is secure with who he is, this concept should neither threaten or cause any sort of reaction. It is just accepted.
Consider that.
Hi!
I am a Brit and as such have never even heard of the “ex gay” movement before! Although we have a lot of bigotry over here too we tend not to adopt a pseudo-Christian stance to justify it.
I stumbled upon this site completely by accident and thought that it was very well done. Too many people on both sides of the debate use strong language, personal attacks and hyperbole to persue their argument. You chose simply to juxtapose pictures of your normal, everyday life (the type of life that most committed couples, gay or straight, would aspire to) with the type of condescending moralistic prose that is written by people who don’t have peace or happiness in their own life and/or haven’t properly researched their subject area. It was the most eloquent pro-gay argument I think I have ever seen! :o)
The main problem with trying to generalise about any group is that, despite some small differences, people are all just people. Before me, my boyfriend had never had a long term relationship and had always cheated on the girls he had gone out with. He spent all his life in bars or with his mates. Now he would rather spend time in the garden or with our kittens than go to a club. He has found a lifestyle and a partner who makes him feel secure and no longer feels the need to sleep around. This is true of lots of my male friends, gay and straight, and to a certain extent my female friends too, when they are not committed to a relationship they are likely to go out without their partners and see what else they can get. But this is not commented on so much because it does not strike people as so “abnormal” or “unhealthy”.
We should never judge the fidelity or success of his relationship by how a man behaves publicly. In heterosexual relationships throughout the world men often cheat, they often spend more time watching sport or driving their cars than they do with their girlfriends, they often do not like to hold hands in public or tell people how in love they are (In fact the gay guys I know are more likely to behave lovingly, or to express their emotions, than the straught guys I know!)but – and this is the important point – when they get home they still like a good cuddle and to feel that they have someone to belong to and who belongs to them.
Sorry for the rant! My best friend is gay and I often have to spend a stupid proportion of my evenings out escaping from drunken idiots who think that his life is their business. He has a good job, works hard, is very intelligent, a great laugh, and has the nicest boyfriend in the world that he has been with for years. They are about 12, with no prospects, and probably a whole host of illegitimate children that will drain our economy for the rest of their lives, but who think that they are better than him because they like girls.
The world is an odd place!
PS – Just as a little comment to “Debbie K” above – The whole conversion fantasy is not just a gay phenomenon. I know lots of women who have cried buckets over gay men that they “love but con’t have” and many many men who have fantasies about pretty lesbians who’ll find them attractive and let them join in! ;o) I think people like the idea of it because it’s the ultimate ego boost – “I like you so much you have made me put aside everything that went before you. Your looks and personality are so wonderful that I now fancy a different gender” blah blah
Becky –
I think you missed the point of the conversation. This was not about straight people wanting gay persons or straight men, wanting to be with lesbians. This conversation was not a fantasy, rather very much the reality of people putting stamps on others. I know too many women, who where “lesbians” and are now straight. Yet they are not called homosexual anymore. That is very much reality.
Likewise, I have a “former” gay friend, who considers himself bisexual. Now he is with a women and going strong. Was it anti-gay, absolutely not. He just now found himself attracted to a women, nothing more complicated than that.
I am saying that people are attracted to, who they are attracted to. Some call it bisexual, but that concept is also misleading. Because there is more to attraction than just physical, it is also emotional and intellegical. The right combination forms all of it. Why not take people by who they are at this moment..and not what they have lived iwth in the past.
HI TO EVERYONE, I WAS JUST PASSING BY AND FOUND THIS WEBSITE. MY NAME IS RICK, I´M FROM MEXICO, AND I´M A FORMER GAY, IF YOU WANT TO CALLED IT LIKE THAT. HOPE THAT WITH THIS STATEMENT, YOU WON´T GET ANGRY OR ANYTHING, I´M NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ANYONE OF YOU GUYS, JUST TRYING TO TELL YOU GUYS WHAT I THINK.
AS I SAID MY NAME IS RICK, I´M 23 YEARS OLD, AND I WAS CONFUSED WITH MY SEX ORIENTATION, FOR A WHILE, LIKE ALMOST 3 YEARS OF MY LIFE, FROM 18 TO 21, WHEN DESTINY CHANGE MY LIFE.
IT´S HARD TO RESUME ALL THIS YEARS, IN JUST A FEW PARAGRAPHS. I USED TO BE THE TYPICAL GAY GUY, HANDSOME, GOOD LOOKING, AND A PLAYER, I USED TO HAVE FUN EVERYTIME I MET A GUY, EVEN TO TALK OR JUST TO FULL AROUND. DURING THIS TREE YEARS, I HAD A GREAT TIME, I CAN´T REFUSE THAT, I HAD MANY FRIENDS, AND MANY PARTNERS, BUT JUST ONE GOT MY HEART, BECAUSE I GOT TO ADMIT THAT I FALL IN LOVE FOR A GUY FOR QUITE A WHILE.
MY LIFE DURING THIS PERIOD WAS KIND OF A MESS, BECAUSE I HAD TO HAVE A DOUBLE LIFE, ONE IN COLLEGE, HOME AN SOCIAL STATUS, AND ANOTHER WHEN I WAS WITH MY GAY FRIENDS. IT WAS PRETTY STRESSING HAVING TO HIDE MY SEXUAL PREFERENCES MUST OF THE TIME, I WAS FRUSTATED BECAUSE I COULDN´T TELL ALL THE WORLD WHAT I REALLY WAS FEELING, I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT I WAS GOING TO BE GAY ALL MY LIFE, AND I ALWAYS WAS TRYING TO JUSTIFIED MY BEHAVOUR AND PROUD OF MY GAY LIFE. I WAS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A PRETTY FACE, NICE BODY, BUT ALSO SOMEONE WITH NOT JUST TWO HEADS, SOMEONE TO HANG AROUNG, PLAY, SPEND MUST OF MY TIME, SOMEONE THAT WASN´T A QUEER BUT ATRACTIVE MALE, WITH VALUES, HONEST WITH HIMSELF, INTELLIGENT, THAT YOU CAN TALK FOR HOURS, SOMEONE TO HUG ME, TO MAKE ME FEEL GOOD, AND SOMEONE TO GIVE ME LOVE, NOT IN A SEX WAY.
BUT EVERYTIME I MET A GUY, ALL THAT THEY WANTED WAS SEX, AS I SAID I MET SOMEONE, THAT I FALL IN LOVE, UNFURTUNETLY THE LIFE THAT WE HAD IN OUR GAY LIFE, ISN´T THE BEST, YOU CAN ALWAYS FOUND SOMEONE NEW, YOUNGER, HANDSOME, ATTRACTIVE, OR WITH MONEY, SO CHEATING IS ALWAYS EASY, SPECIALLY WHEN YOU MIX TWO MENS TOGETHER. GAY LIFE ISN´T EASY EVEN YOU LIVE IN AMERICA, EUROPE, ASIA, OR AFRICA, YOU ARE ALWAYS POINTED OUT, DISCRIMINATED, UNSECURE, SOMETIMES YOU ARE RUNNING IN DANGER TO CONTRACT AIDS, AND SOMETIMES WE DON´T LOOK IN TO THE NEAR FUTURE, WE TRYED TO LIVE IN TO THE PRESENT, ENJOYING OURSELFS, POPULARITY, ETC. THE GAY LIFE ISN´T EASY SPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE GROWING OLDER, AND YOU GUYS CAN´T REFUSE THAT, JUST GO IN TO THE CLUBS AND LOOK IN TO THE GUYS THAT ARE OLDER, ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A YOUNG ASS, PRETTY FACE, OR SOMEONE TO TAKE CARE AND GIVE SOME MONEY TO MAINTAIN.
AFTER THIS TREE YEARS, MY MOM COME AROUND AN ASK ME IF I WAS GAY? I SAY YES, AND SHE STARTED TO CRIED ALL NIGHT LONG, I WAS SO STUBBERN, SO PROUD OF MY LIFE, THAT I DIDN´T REALIZE THE NIGHTMARE OF THE LIFE THAT I WAS GIVING TO MY FRIENDS, AND TO MY FAMILY, BUT ALSO TO ME I WAS SO CONCERN ABOUT ME, THAT I FORGOT THAT THERE WERE SOME FRIENDS OUT THERE, THAT WERE WORRIED ABOUT ME. MY MOM TOLD ME THAT I WAS GOING TO CHANCE, NO MATTER WHAT I THINK, SHE HAD A LOT OF FAITH IN GOD, I DIDN´T.
AFTER ONE MONTH, I DECIDED TO GO TO AN SPIRITUAL RETIREMENT, JUST TO FIND SOME PEACE IN MY SOULD, I WAS SO DEPRESED WITH ALL THAT HAD HAPPENDED IN TO MY LIFE, ALL THAT I LIVED, NOT HAVING A SINGLE FRIEND TO STAND FOR ME, OR TO LYE IN TO HIM, NOT A FAITHFULL PARTNER, JUST A SEXUAL PREFERENCE THAT WAS NOT COMMUN. I WAS SO SAD, TILL GOD DID HIS PART OF HIS JOB, ALL OF THE SUDDEN I REALIZE THE MISTAKE THAT I WAS DOING WITH MY LIFE, BUT WHAT REALLY CHANGE MY LIFE, WAS RECIVING HIS TRUE AND INCONDITIONAL LOVE, A LOVE THAT ENTER IN MY HEARTH AND THAT STAYS TILL THIS DAY.
I KNOW FOR SOME PEOPLE THIS MAY SOUND ACKWARD, AND NOT POSSIBLE, BUT BELIEVE ME, I DIDN´T WANT TO CHANGE, I DIDN´T WANT TO LEAVE MY LIFE, BUT WHEN I REALIZE THAT THE GAY LIFE WASN´T MEANT FOR ME, EVERYTING AROUND ME CHANGED.
IT ISN´T EASY WHEN YOU HAD A LIFE, AND YOU DECIDED TO CHANGE IT, IT WAS PAINTFULL HAVING TO CLOSE ALL MY CIRCULES, HAVING TO GO AWAY FROM MY GAY FRIENDS, AND THE GAY COMUNITY, IT WASN´T EASY BEING ALONE AND START ALL OVER AGAIN. THIS HAPPENED TREE YEARS AGO.
ONE YEAR AFTER THIS EXPERIENCE I DECIDED TO GO TO A TERAPIST, AND WITH SOME HARD WORK, I DISCOVERED THAT NO ONE BORNS BEING HOMOSEXUAL, THERE ARE THE CIRCUNSTANCES THAT MAKE YOU THINK THAT YOU HAVE A SEXUAL PREFERENCE FOR YOUR SAME SEX, IN MY CASE, WAS THE LACK OF A FATHER, HE WAS ALWAYS HITTING ME, SAYING THAT I WAS AND ASSHOLE, HE NEVER GAVE ME TRUE LOVE, I NEVER HAD THAT LOVE THAT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR EVETYONE, THE LOVE AND FIGURE OF OUR DAD, ALL THAT I WAS ALWAYS LOOKING IN A GUY WAS MYSELF, SOMEONE SECURE ABOUT HIMSELF, CONFIDENT, DECIDED, HANDSOME, ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN, THAT CARES ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, AND THAT ISN´T AFRAID TO SAY I LOVE YOU, BECAUSE I DIDN´T HAVE AN IDENTITY AT THAT TIME, I REALIZE THAT AFTER ONE YEAR OF THERAPHY.
MAYBE IF YOU ARE READING ALL THIS, YOU MIGHT THINK THAT YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT SITUATTION AND I DON´T DOUBT IT, IN MY EXPERIENCE, ALL OF US, ARE LOOKING FOR THE HUG, LOVE AND CARE OF OUR OWN DAD, OUR OURSELFS. WE DECIDED TO BE GAY BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY FACTORS THAT CONTRIBUTED TO TAKE THIS WAY OF LIFE, EVEN IF YOU WERE RIPED WHEN YOU WERE A LITTLE CHILD, EVEN IF YOUR MOM DIDN´T GIVE YOU THE LOVE YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, OR IF YOUR PARENT ARE NOT TOGETHER, OR DEATH BUT WE CAN CHANGE, THE CHANGE IS POSSIBLE, IT ISN´T EASY AS TAKING AND ASPIRINE, BUT YOU CAN DO IT. UNFURTUNETLY THIS CHANGE DOESN´T COME BY OURSELF BUT BY GOD, AND BY REALIZING THAT WE ARE NOT MEANT TO BE GAY, BUY A NORMAL GUY OR A GIRL
I´M NOT THE ONLY ONE GUY THAT HAVE EXPERIENCE THIS CHANGE, AND THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE MALE AND FEMALE THAT WOULD THING THAT THEY HAVE A SEXUAL PREFERENCE TO HIS OR HER OWN GENDER, AT LEAST YOU GOT TO KNOW THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS CHANGE, NO MATTER YOUR AGE. NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE ITSN´T IMPOSSIBLE, IT´S REAL. YOU MIGHT HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, YOU MIGHT BE ANGRY WITH MY LIFE, BUT MY FRIEND YOU CAN CHANGE, IF IT WASN´T WORTH IT, I WOULD BE WRITTING THIS LINES. GOD LOVE YOU NO MATTER WHAT.
I know the statement: “Real love is nurturing and fulfilling. It’s something that two men just can’t have for each other” is false. And what’s more I can prove it.
You, see before I was ready to admit that I was gay, I was married to a woman. I loved her very much – otherwise I would never have gotten married. As I got older I realised however that I was not happy. I did not love my partner in the way that I should. As we had lived together for a total of 14 years, it was quite dissapointing – I really thought she was the one for me – I had convinced myself. However, I knew inside me that I had feelings for men. I had hidden them and denied them for many years. I did not act on my feelings and for many years I stayed faithful to my wife.
In due course I eventually met a man. I told him about my desires and feelings. I shared everything with him and told him about how I felt and how I was living a lie. I fell in love with him and bonded with him in a way I never could with my wife. Eventually, because I didn’t want to lie anymore to her, or to myself, I told her the truth. It was hurtful and a difficult thing to do but it was the right thing to do. Keeping a lie is always much worse than telling the truth – no matter how hard it is. When I eventually moved in with this guy, I was so happy and I’m still happy (8 years later). Even friends and family thought I looked happier. Colleagues at work mentioned it to me, they probably thought there was a new woman in my life – or perhaps that I’d come in to money.
The happiness gets better every day now – we would do anything for each other, we even seem to know what the other is thinking. And let me tell you this, the love I have for him surpasses the love I had for my wife – and I should know, as I have had the chance to make a direct comparison. I know now that the love I had for her was only because society expected it of me and I was too weak to stand up and be counted. I tried to conform to other people’s “normality” and tried to deny my own nature. Luckily I found out in time and acted to reverse the dammage. So don’t talk to me about Ex-Gays, coz I’m an Ex-Str8.
Awesome. ^_^
I am an 18 year old M who happens to be gay I tried for the longest time to be str8, I didn’t know what was “wrong” with me. No one knew or knows for that matter, its so hard to be a gay guy especially in highschool. If anyone knew they would hate me, I mean I am no different than anyone else its just I happen to like men, I am thought by everyone to be str8 and its been really helpfull reading on your website. Its good to know that there is nothing wrong with me nor my mentalitly. Its difficult when the people you love and care so deeply about slander homosexuals and talk about how they are crazy or messed up in the head. I don’t know when the “coming out” process will start but I wanted to say much thanks for not being afraid to put it out there, if only more people would just stand up (yes I am being slighly hypocritical I know) then maybe there wouldn’t be such taboo on homosexuality.
ps your story is freakishly how mine has started I mean really freakishly from jokes to accepatace to boyscouts to meeting open people thanks for sharing
Thanks, whatever your name is. I like to think I made a deal with the world: I’d come out, and if everything went okay, I’d always help other peple do the same. I’ve helped dozens of people this way, and it’s one of the things that makes me happiest about what I’ve accomplished in my life. Now just about exactly ten years after coming out, I have no regrets whatsoever.
Bravo, my friend, bravo. Keep up the good fight. I’ve heard this same crap being fed to me in my own church and even my own home. The sad thing is that some people actually believe that they are acting in love when they try to “turn” a homosexual.
The author of the letter is full of so many generalizations, it’s sickening. People should open their eyes to the fact that a homosexual relationship and a heterosexual relationship are no different, except for the aspect of same sex love. Otherwise, the love is still their, the devotion is still there, everything necessary for a good and healthy relationship is there.
I’m straight, and thus not up on all the current gay issues, so correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t the whole “ex-gay” movement been discredited? I remember hearing horror stories on the net (ok, reading) from news sites about brainwashing and physical abuse, and that like 95% of “convert” went back.
Either way, the people who send you these letters are idiots, i never chose to be straight, and i’ve seen scientific research showing gays don’t either.
(BTW. Great Site)
What a beautiful way of answering such mindless prejudice! Loved the photos and many congratulations on your wedding.
Fortunately God isn’t nearly as stupid as the ex-gay movement would have him be. Any Christian who uses the brain that God gave him can see that morality isn’t about whether you are gay or straight, but how you live your life.
Your love for one another and commitment in marriage is as valid a fulfillment of the teachings of Jesus Christ in the gospels as any heterosexual marriage.
Love and God bless
Daniel
Courage! but live pure, Soon the walls are going to fall!
Im Christian and what i´m gonna say is very radical. I knew God since i was a kid but i questión him for years about my sexuality now i have fully peace about who I´m his blessing to me à know men hear society opinion is funny , macho aactitud always hide sth is real false in this earh ………but most importante i know God, his support in this are wonderfull.
He will answer me the same as jason and scot , I´m very happy to see this pic today.
.
Juanito.
I am ex-gay and am still apalled by the letter you received. I don’t understand why someone would send such an igonorant letter and seriously mean it.
peace,
spencer
Sounds like my parents.
Hey, Im a 17 year old “ex gay” as most would put it. Just to let you know we arent all weirdos, bigots and satanists! I accept that some gays, like yourself are happy with their sexuality, and so you should be, you look very happy in your pictures. But for others like me it can cause problems. I had sexual feelings solely for men, but I only ever fell in “romantic” love with women, so for me It was a matter of choosing which gender Id be happier with. Ive worked hard with my therapy and don’t think ex-gays should be criticised as heavily as we are.
Please note this irony:
Gay people had to fight against oppostion to their sexuality, but now gay people are opposing the ex-gay sexuality in an even worse way (sayign there is no such thing, they are in denial, they are homophobes etc), that is what I call hypocritical.
Rich,
I know that not all ex-gays are weirdos. (And of course most consider themselves Christians, not satanists!)
Questioning someone else’s sexual orientation is, in a way, kind of pointless: You can’t ever get inside someone else’s head and determine what they are really feeling, and much less can you determine what’s right for them. All that anyone can say is “I hope you are happy.” So I will say this to you: I hope you are happy.
I also hope that you will actually be able to satisfy your life partner, both romantically and sexually. Simply wanting to be around and liking the company of someone is not enough. You will have to (have to!) please them sexually, as well. I don’t know whether you can do this, and I worry a little bit about it: If you have no sexual feelings for women, this may become a significant problem in your life. To say nothing of hers.
Now, as to the irony you mention: No, gay people most certainly are not opposing ex-gays in “an even worse way” than gays themselves were opposed.
Until ex-gays are routinely fired, arrested, jailed, fined, castrated, beaten, raped, and murdered, they will not have suffered in the way that gays did.
We oppose ex-gay therapy not because it always fails, but because it makes promises that so often are unfulfilled. The vast majority of people who try ex-gay therapy fail. And as they do, they suffer. This is wrong and it needs to stop, particularly because so many of these people would have happier lives as openly gay men and women.
Our methods? Persuasion. That’s all. Not the rest. Don’t delude yourself that you are a persecuted minority as an ex-gay. You aren’t.
Yes, now I do have sexual feelings for women (arousal, lust and all the rest) and I look forward to being intimate with a woman. You know, maybe this is because I am 17 and have gone through a “phase” of homosexuality but thats exactly my point: the pro-gay community insist that people are born with a sexuality and it is fixed. Well If mine and many others people’s sexuality changes over time (even if only during their teenage years) then that shows that sexuality is not hardwired. Again maybe Ive just been through a phase but it is a slight coincidence that the change begun after I had started therapy.
Also although ex-gays do not suffer in the same physical sense we are still persecuted. I am called a liar, bigot, homophobe, in denial or suffering from “internalized homophobia” and generally ridiculed for my beliefs and for my decisions in external sources such as the media. Many popular TV shows, chat shows, soap operas etc denounce the ex gay community as a sham and I have to face this and put up with this everyday. Im pretty sure many gay people would like to “kick me in” for my beliefs. You do not know what Its like hearing gay-activists lies (born gay, 10% are gay, sexuality is fixed) and knowing that many innocent kids out there are going to be hurt by these fallacies. Kids should be told they can adopt any sexuality they wish. I was suicidal and suffering before I started therapy, so without there support I probably wouldn’t be here to type this message.
You’ve probably already made your assumptions of me and thats fine, but let me tell you this. Im not a religous person, nor are my parents. Believe it or not my parents are very pro-gay so I cannot even “come out” so to speak about my sexuality in case they turn on me like the rest of society. I think I know pretty damn well what its like to suffer.
Well, Rich, you certainly have a lot of preconceived notions about me, too, and about the gay community. Dialogue is where we dispel these, and where we do our best not to wallow in them. So let’s see what we can do…
I think you will find that the responsible observers in the gay community do not make the blanket statements that so infuriate you. The real point of “coming out” as a social movement is not to make everyone as gay as possible. It’s to make sure that everyone lives a rich, full, authentic, honest life, regardless of their orientation. And this of course includes those who have both fixed and fluid sexualities.
My own experience was quite fixed — I tried very hard to think about women sexually, and there was just no response. Neither lust, nor revulsion, nor any kind of spark at all. But whenever I thought about men, the results were very different.
You, however, say that you have changed. Just as I ask for my own acceptance, I should ask for yours, too. Perhaps it was only a “phase” on your part — but aren’t all changes, of any type, indicative of a “phase” someone went through? Even adult sexuality is a phase, if you think about it that way.
What responsible critics argue is that most people (indeed the overwhelming majority) receive no benefit from ex-gay therapy, and that most people find it a deeply miserable experience. There have been numerous studies to back up these claims. Responsible critics also point out that ex-gay advocates usually push a large number of harmful stereotypes about gays and lesbians. They say that we are broken. That we aren’t fully people. That we are victims. That we are deeply unhappy and always will be.
These stereotypes are usually on display in the messages I get from the ex-gay movement. I wrote the above essay to counteract them, by simply showing what my life was actually like.
If you really do possess a fluid sexuality, you should keep in mind that it may change again in the future. It may just be that there are more types of sexuality, beyond just homo- hetero- and bi-. Some of each type may be able to change, while some of each may not. You might just be a very changeable person, and — who knows — you may have to live with these changes throughout your life. I wish you the best of everything, wherever you end up.
Finally, I just have one thought on your comment “I think I know pretty damn well how to suffer.”
Hate to break it to ya, kid, but every 17-year-old in the entire world believes they already know how to suffer. Not all of them really do.
Consider my example: By the time I was your age, my father had told me that if he ever found I was queer, he would “kick me out of the house.” As I grew up I routinely heard him make jokes about fags and queers, and I knew from age fifteen that if I was ever discovered, I would be homeless.
Turns out, I had it easy. I hid it from him until I could support myself on my own. He’s only recently started trying to have a normal relationship with me. This has hurt a lot, but I forgive him.
Some gay teens aren’t so lucky, and these do end up homeless. In fact, the single most common reason for American teenage homelessness is because a parent kicked a child out of the house for being gay. I do think that the ex-gay movement’s time and energy would be better spent in reuniting these families, rather than chasing what is for nearly everyone an impossible dream.
This is to say nothing of gays in places like Pakistan, Iran, or Saudi Arabia, where homosexual acts can prompt either a legal or an informal death sentence.
Suffering? Puh-lees. Neither you nor I know the half of it.
Whoever wrote such a letter to you is a moron. I couldn’t believe when this person said that “Real love is nurturing and fulfilling and something that two men can’t have for each other”. Who is he to judge the quality of your love and devotion to one another?? By his comments, this person seems to believe that a relationship between two men can only consist of lust and sex, and that “only heterosexuals sacrifice themselves and their personal desires for each other”. I guess that’s why the divorce rate for heterosexuals is close to 50% , because of all the “sacrifices” that they make for each other!!!!
So to you Jason and Scott I wish you love and happiness always, and I trust you are not affected by the misguided and judgmental remarks of such foolish people……….perhaps we should feel sorry for them because they obviously don’t know what true love really is………….
Hi there!
I’m Suzy, I’m 18, I’m annoyed.
One thing I detest is people forcing their views upon other people, trying to brainwash people, change their beliefs. It disgusts me. Although I am an atheist, I have no problem with people believing in God, and following religion. What I find unsettling, (to put it mildly!) is when christians, or any other people, knock on my door and tell me that I am wrong. I leave them be, and have no problem with them. And after all did it not say in the bible – do to your neighbour as you would have him do unto you? Or something to that effect! They certainly wouldn’t want me telling them to stop believing in God because I, one person, thinks its a load of b******s. Live and let live.
If a person is attracted to the same sex that is there business and their business only.
And anyway.. why does disease exist? It could be “God’s” way of controlling the population. (I am going somewhere with this, honest) Why can some women not have children? The same reason perhaps. Could it not also be that God made some people ‘homosexual’ to control the population? Therefore it would infact be a very christian lifestyle… food for thought! With all the propblems; environmental, demographic, even political and social, caused by overpopulation, homosexuality may be a very wise concept, a very global minded, considerate lifestyle. (not that most people choose it, however. ‘God’ Knows how many apparently straight people are actually gay but social pressure and prejudices prevent them from being themselves.
I am also not keen on people being labelled. I have been in a relationship with another woman for nearly a year and a half, (my first relationship with another women), but I do not call myself a lesbian. Some people may say “she’s in denial!” but this is not the case.. if I was in denial, I would not have been with her for so long, or told all my friends and my parents! So when people ask me, are you gay? I reply “No, I’m Suzy”. My sexual preference is a tiny part of who I am, and should certainly not be a major identifying feature of me! Of course, this is my own opinion and I have nothing against people who don’t mind being labelled, so long as they have nothing against my choices. I don’t feel it’s necessary to join groups or clubs or societies, nor do I feel part of a “gay community”. I am a human being, and I am a part of the global community, with all its wonderfully mismatched diverse components.
So that was my roundabout, beat-around-the bush, stop-off-for -a -kebab -on -the -way sort of way of telling the pratt that wrote that letter to sling his hook! He is clearly a very insecure, brainwashed soul, jealous of the happiness you enjoy, that he could never enjoy.
Here ends my wonderfully British rant!
DearJason,
As a Christian and a mom of 2 gay children I want to wish the best of luck and God’s richest blessings on you union.
Jason,
As a healed transgender I do know that the Lord is able to heal all who are afflicted or possessed by a spirit of perversion. I was delivered from such and hope that you will likewise repent and believe the gospel.
The issues that the Lord showed me are these:
The Lord said the last days would be as the days of Noah and as the days of Lot.
Many people haggle over the sin of Sodom and the sin in Noah’s day to justify homosexuality as well as transgenderism.
What is important is not what the sin is but what did it take to be saved?
Noah was hetrosexual as proven by his wife, sons and their wives. None had boyfriends or girlfriends.
Lot was hetrosexual as well having a wife and daughters. The husbands of those daughters chose to stay in sin and wickedness and were destroyed. Just as his wife looked back. The lord trys to heal some but they look back and the GLBT community around them talks them back into believing they are gay.
The way we live is a witness at the throne of God of what we believe. The Lord said “ye shall be witnesses unto me.”
The “seed,” or “seed of copulation” always represents the Word, Lord, Spirit and kingdom of God in a spiritual sense. That which brings forth life in plants, animals and people.
The Lord commanded the children of Israel to go outside the camp to ease themselves and bury that which came out of them so there would be nothing unclean in the camp where he walked.
The word likens our bodies to the camp, tent, tabernacle, synagogue and city.
Why would anyone take something as precious as the word of God and put it in an unclean place? In a spiritual type and shadow that is what two homosexual men are manifesting at the throne of God. A blatent disrespect for the word and Spirit of God and trampling underfoot the blood that was shed at Calvary. Bring him to an open shame before the Cheribims, Ceraphims, angels, the souls of just men made perfect and his Father!
Lesbians manifest at the throne of God that they don’t need a “seed”, “seed of copulation,” the word, the Lord nor his Spirit. Just as there is no seed in their communion to bring forth life there is no seed, or Spirit of Life in them. There cannot be as God will not go against his word. And the Spirit of God will not dwell in an unclean place. It was sent to glorify Jesus.
Every person used as a similtude of Jesus in the old testament was straight.
Noah, a preacher of righteousness (Christ) built an ark (covenant) to save his wife (church) and his sons and their wives.(flock) A type and shadow of a hetrosexual family.
Jesus is returning soon. He’s not coming for a “bud” or a “partner.” He’s not coming for someone born in the wrong body.
He’s returning for a bride. And she better be without spot.
I was at one time a part of the GLBT community. I was delivered from the spirit of perversion that had me bound.
I therefore urge you to repent, fast and pray and seek the Lord’s mercy with all your heart.
I did and he delivered me.
Straight people do not know what it is like to be transgender. I do. It was not a choice. I was bound. But now I am free!
May God bless,
Tiffany
I think you two look awesome together and don’t let anyone ever tell you otherwise. The garden was very beautiful but I advise one thing, add some tulips in there they brighten things up and are pretty sturdy. Good luck you two and congratulations.